"Crap" from SKOP and Tokoloshe
Jack
Kindly remove this e-mail address from your distribution list!!!
This usage of this UAE forum to promote your personal crusade got to a point where thousands of South Africans are really "gatvol" of your personal issues. Instead of this forum being used to promote SA and
embrace the spirit among South Africans in the UAE , your personal verdetta has created more negative publicity (in the 7Days as well) than all the publications put together. Keep your personal issues to the official channels and stop using the local press here in the UAE to fight against the SA Government.
I hope this is the last crap I will get from "SKOP" or Tokoloshe.
Cheers
Johan Botha
Dubai
Jack replies:
Johan, I will remove your details from my data base as requested after I have sent this to you. However, just to clear your mind about a few things, here is my reply to you.
I am really sorry to have offended you with "crap" from SKOP. I have no intention of offending anyone other than the criminals in our country. Please do accept my sincerest apologies for this oversight.
SKOP is not a UAE forum. It is a South African forum and it is MY website. It is a crusading website. You do not pay anything towards it, and I earn nothing out of it. SKOP is a crusade for truth and justice in our wonderful country. The aims and objectives of the website are to get people who care enough about South Africa involved by making them aware of what the reality is. This website is not here to kiss any butts, but rather to kick some into action. It is not only my crusade, but also those who have lost loved ones like I have.
Too many Safricans bury their heads in the sand and hope that someone else will sort out the crime and corruption for them. These are the people who call this website “crap”, and yes, you are not the only one. There are some like you who do not want to face the reality that our once proud police force is becoming totally useless and that no-one is safe anymore. On the other hand, there are many who really support this website and what it stands for.
For your information, I am a very proud South African and I carry my flag with honour. I love my country and promote it wherever I go. Maybe it is because two of my sons and both my parents all died in the country that I am doing all in my power to do something to rid it of the crime that has infested it. I cannot, and will not bury my head in the sand like a coward waiting for others to do something for our country.
And yes, I need to know the answers to my son's death. I am entitled to answers. I still am his father,
I have one question for you Johan: “What have you ever done for South Africa since you have been here in the UAE?”
I am sure that everyone would love to read your reply.
Jack.
Johan Botha takes flak 1
Dear Jack,
I’m amazed at Johan Botha’s response. He obviously has no sense of compassion and clearly has no loyalty to any South African as he would have understood the pain and frustration you and your family must be feeling. I am ashamed to think that a fellow South African can make such insensitive remarks. With an attitude such as MR Botha it’s no wonder there’s so much corruption and crime in our country. We are not all here simply for financial gain, but to escape the realism that crime represents. There should be a sense of compatriotism amongst South Africans.
I applaud you for being the voice so many of us can relate to.
As many readers have expressed, despite being an expatriate we all still see South Africa as our home and the place we love.
I have lived in the UAE for 8 years. I originally registered with the SA embassy to have some link to home. 8 years later and not one reply nor any correspondence. The only dealings I’ve had with the SA consulate is a 4 month wait for a replacement passport, which I’ve had to do twice. How is it that other countries can do it within weeks not months? It would be nice to see people that are employed by the consulate who are South African nationals, considering the vast un-employment levels in our country. The majority of individuals I’ve dealt with before has never even been to South Africa. How is our country represented?
I truly admire what you have done and appreciate the way you are creating a South African community in the UAE. Please keep it up!
Don’t know if the web links below would be of any use, however can make use of all possible means to raise awareness abroad and get the right message across. Many will and can relate to it.
Best regards,
Venia.
Johan Botha takes flak 2
Johan
Apart from the issues which have been adequately addressed by others who have replied to your comments about Skop, I'd like to know what entitles you to speak for 'thousands of South Africans'. Have you solicited their opinions before making this rash statement, or is it merely based on what you think they should feel?
Jack has a perfect right to express what he feels, and to solicit responses through whatever legal channels he chooses. You have a perfect right to disagree and express this, but you don't have a right to purport to speak for 'thousands' of people whom you do not even know.
Furthermore, Jack is doing something for his country, for you, for me., and for all of us, which might be more than you are doing.
I have had the pleasure and honour of meeting Jack and I understand the pain he is going through and his desire to have answers. Perhaps you could try to consider this matter from his perspective rather than just your own.
Best regards
Mike Preston
Johan Botha takes flak 3
Jack,
I wouldn't worry about what some people think, if I was to listen to what all say I would never of opened my organic stores or set it my task to try to save all our futures and stop chemicals being poured all over our planet. Is sometimes seems like being an ant againt an elephant but when you know you are right then you are right and it takes a lot more to do something about it than to give a crappy comment. What should we do nothing ? Then we might as well curl up and die. Do what you can no matter what others think. Was it not Nelson Mandela's struggle to do what he thought was right that finally got everyones admiration. As for South Africa one cannot always go forwards and in some aspects one has to take a step back to take two forwards and I think it is the likes of those on a mission who will achieve that. It is the total opposite of being selfish. Maybe he just had a bad hair day, I would leave it now and concentrate on what you have to do. Just watch that you don't end on Robben Island.
Regards,
Nils El Accad
Johan Botha takes flak 4: Ozzie Afrikaner replies to Mr. Botha
Well, Mr Botha, I am sure that you and those who feel like you are enjoying the safety and security you experience outside South Africa. I am sure that you could not have experienced what Jack and Rita have, or else you would not have posted what you did. I am sure that, were you to lose a child under the same horrendous circumstances, you would think and feel differently. As it is I can only envy you your distance from the suffering of others.
The Hirschbergs are entitled to closure, and to have the fullest possible results regarding Jay's death. If that leaves you cold, then -- with all due respect -- you should not be reading SKOP.
As an Afrikaner now living in Australia (where I came for the simple reason that I wanted to be with the woman I love, who happens to be an Australian) I can with all honesty say that I will never cease to be a South African in my heart and soul. I have no quarrel with the colour of anyone's skin, and I am more than willing to applaud the government for all they do right, but by the same token I reserve my democratic right to speak out against injustice, inefficiency and corruption, no matter who the culprit may be. Jack Hirschberg is excercising his democratic rights. If that does not appeal to you, so be it... but it does not give you the right to attack him so crudely for voicing his opinions on his own website.
Jack and Rita and all close to them will always have my support, as will anyone anywhere in the world who has suffered the loss of a dear one to mindless brutality.
Ray Theron - Australia
Johan Botha takes flak 5: People are leaving South Africa in droves.
If caring South African's fail to act against crime in South Africa, no one else will. South African's with vision are all deeply concerned about the crime levels and the lack of official action in terms of implementation and planning, to bring this epidemic, taking its toll in our country, to an end. I wondered if Johan Botha would even consider living in a crime-ridden country such as Somalia? If people like Jack Hirschberg don't do what they do, Johan Botha may well be visiting family in the equivalent setting.
People are leaving South Africa in droves, the most quoted reason being the high crime levels. All South Africans are effected, the rich the poor and the working class. South Africa's criminals don't discriminate.
Many people condemned the likes of Alan Paton, Andre Brink, Nelson Mandela, Chris Hani etc. they are good examples of South Africans who used the media to achieve their goals. Perhaps we did not know it then, but their goals were our goals namely freedom and equality for all South Africans, regardless of race, colour or creed.
Just a few weeks ago, while watching Carte Blanche, my wife and I were shocked to see the emergence of a new crime in South Africa, that of building hijacking. Where to next? Something has to be done and people like Jack are doing it.
Well done to you Jack, my prayer is that you find the answers that you seek. As a parent you have every rite to the truth about your son. While you embark on your truth-seeking crusade, I hope more South Africans are positively affected by your patriotism. With out patriotic South Africans, there will be no South Africa.
Johan Botha, my advise to you is to loosen up, Nero may have fiddled while Rome burnt, South Africans however, must be made aware of the fact that crime is slowly taking South Africa away from its people. We cannot afford to ignore calls for petitions to our government; if we do we may find ourselves applying for citizenship of a foreign country.
Viva South Africa, Viva Jack
Kevin Gleeson- UAE
Johan Botha takes flak 6 - Vasbyt
Jack,
No matter what anyone says, you keep doing what you do Meneer. I lost my Mom a few years ago and as usual the culprits have not been caught. One car between 8 detectives, each with a huge pile of dockets - you do the maths and figure out how much investigation goes on. It's more important to spend money on bodyguards and bulletproof cars for our esteemed ministers than on cars for Police to do their jobs. The list goes on ad nauseum.
You keep up the pressure and keep fighting.
People who criticise you and your website have not suffered what we have. They do not understand. They cannot understand.
Keep it up my friend. vasbyt.
See you at the sevens!.............
All the best
Tony
Johan Botha takes flak 7 - You cannnot shoot a thief in your house
Johan
It’s real easy for you to talk, being in Dubai. A few questions for you:
Do you know what it feels like to be too scared to wear even you engagement ring? Instead you rather wear a cheapy bought at a local chain store, just because these people here are willing to bite your finger off just to get the ring? Do you know how it feels or what goes through your mind when a loaded 9mm Berretta is repeatedly slammed against you head because the bastard’s nerves are frayed and you can not get the ring he wants of your finger?
Do you know what it feels like to be on a constant lookout while you are waiting for a traffic light to change? Have you ever been hi-jacked? Have you ever had a car stolen in SA only to find out later that the police officers you reported the case to, was part of the syndicate that most probably stole your car in the first place?
Do you know that you are not allowed to shoot at a thief found in your home because it’s against his human rights? Which implies directly that your basic human right of survival is not even considered? Have you ever been pushed of the road in an attempted hi-jack, only to find that the policy (who just happens to arrive at the scene all of a sudden) side with the culprits and writes you a ticket for reckless driving? While you are explaining to these people what happened, the culprits pushes you around and rob you – right in front of the police – yet nothing is done?
Do you know that when a woman is raped, and the police (or anyone else for that matter) happen to find you, they are not allowed to shoot at the rapist – if they can not catch him – sorry for you girl – go the long route and know that the rapist who most probably just infected you with HIV, will never be brought to justice. If he is brought to justice, you as woman are not regarded as the victim – in fact you are totally torn apart in court and at the end of the day you feel as if it’s your fault that you got raped.
Have you ever had someone close to you murdered in SA? Have you ever tried to comfort a friend who was shot at in her own home? Or a friend who was the first on the scene of his brother’s accident, where the brother was beheaded because the truck driver was drunk and the police did not now what to do? (Needless to say – the case also has not been solved yet) Or who found both his parents chopped to pieces during a farm murder? Have you ever had to pray to God to please make your death a quick, painless death?
If SA is such a great place then, why did you leave? If you have such an issue, why did you subscribe to SKOP in the first place? Stop acting like an ostrich and catch a wake-up call somewhere. God willing, may you never get a reality check on these matters you have such an issue with.
Jack, from a not so proud SA – thank you for what you are doing – I, for one, at least appreciates it.
Zelda - SA
Johan has his "kort broeke" in a knot
Johan seems to have got his "kort-broeke" in a real knot doesn't he? Sorry for that, Johan - you are really, very harsh and unsympathetic. I've never met Jack but I feel for his loss and the utter frustration he must feel knowing that the cops back home are so inept and so uncaring. I trust you haven't, and pray that you will never have to, had to suffer the loss of a child of any age. It's the pit that none of us wants to peer into, let alone have to experience.
I have written to SKOP previously and I stand by what I've said before... it's totally unacceptable what's
happened to what was once an amazingly vibrant, great place to be. Yes, the old regime was corrupt and Apartheid as a system stank, but since the gangrenous crime set in it's been like watching a slow agonising death of a nation from the toes up. It's inexplicable how Mbeki and his cohorts just bumble along watching the country and its people being destroyed. Do they care? Apparently not a fig! Where does Jacob Zuma get off, addres
Johan Botha takes flak 8 - Forgive others for they know what they do
Hi Jack
God willing Johan will never be in the situation you and I are sitting in. It is people like him who think that all websites should be only what they want to read. Positive criticism is always welcome - but letters like
Skop is "crap" serve no purpose what so ever.
I believe your website is giving a lot of insight to a lot of people of what really happens in this country, when a crime is committed. I previously mentioned to you - don not allow people like this force you to
stop with " SKOP" or your fight to find out the truth regarding Jays murder.
Yes - I too buried my head in the sand and did not pay much attention to police investigations in this country - even when I was told after a break in, that I must organize to get fingerprints from the person I (still) believe was responsible, as the SAP could not get them!!
Since the death of Tracey - I have tried everything I could think of to get a proper investigation done - Lip Service abounded - but no action. I never wanted publicity - the family wanted to grieve in private - but
unfortunately without media involvement the dockets get moved to the bottom of the pile - fraud takes priority over murder investigations. I believe that people like Johan forget - for every murder that is not
investigated means someone is walking the streets who is capable of killing again. The human rights of prisoners are of higher priority than the victims rights in this country. It is a very sad situation and yes - the
SAP are understaffed, overworked and suffer from severe stress - but why is nothing done to help the situation?
Headlines in the Citizen News Paper this morning - 7 year old Raped and Murdered" - what is going to be done to try and trace and arrest her killer/s - or again will private investigators have to be brought in by the
family??
Regards
Carol
This country is F*CK
I feel sorry for your loss. If this Government do not start feeding the nation soon, I believe all will be lost. Thanks for your great effort, but until our domestic policies does not change towards job creations, we will keep on building bigger and better prisons.
They got a cool first world country, they broke it with in five years.
Dear leaders,
You must look at the people that are hungry and stop looking at your self.
The Truth Will Prevail.
Whitey
South Africa
It will have to snow in Dubai first
We relocated to the Middle East some 18 months ago and I never realised quite how homesickness can affect someone.
However, we knew that there really was no alternative - we were forced to leave SA because of the financial situation we found ourselves in, with no real hope that my experienced, intelligent, diligent husband would ever be able to find employment again at the age of 56. With no job security and no real provision for a happy, safe and healthy retirement (who can save a sufficiently large nest-egg in South Africa these days?) we jumped at the opportunity to come to Dubai to make a fresh start.
Looking at South Africa, as I now do from a great distance, I am even more horrified and frustrated at the events that play themselves out there, and it's hard to explain to Poms, Aussies, Kiwi's, anyone, why these things happen. They simply cannot comprehend why perpetrators of horrendous crimes, like the killing of Jay Hirschberg, are not swiftly brought to justice. They simply cannot comprehend the horrendous AIDS/HIV statistics and the government's ineptitude and failure at rolling out essential ARVs. They don't even some close to understanding the levels of Government corruption and are amazed that someone like Jacob Zuma can still go abroad to be feted in other African countries when he and his cohorts should be hanging their heads in shame.
They're almost disbelieving when you quote the numbers of murders committed each year back home.
Most recently, my friends couldn't even come close to understanding why, when friends of mine were attacked on their smallholding in Broadacres a couple of weeks ago by 8 gun-wielding men who burst into their home at 22h00, shot Stan in the leg and then proceeded to beat the living daylights out of, while attemptinh to rape, his 48kilogram wife, Stan now faces a court case because he managed to shoot one his wife's attackers brains out! Try explaining that to people who live in more civil societies. Tell them about these things and they think you're exaggerating. In the end you stop telling them because it's too depressing.
I'm afraid that, as homesick as I am and however much I dream about South Africa, snow is going to have to fall in Dubai before I'll ever consider returning to the place I was once proud to call home.
Ruth Edwards
Dubai
UAE
Ed. Hi Ruth.
Bravo!!! We (I do) need people like you to help vocalise the situation back "home". Dubai is great, but there is no place like "home", and I really do want to return there one day, so I need to stick my neck out and try to do something about it. I only have the power of the pen (keyboard and internet in this case) to do it. However, it's not only other nationalities who do not believe what is happening there. Many South Africans here and elsewhere abroad do not believe it, or simply bury their heads in the sand, pretend it is not happening and hope that someone will sort it all out for them so that they can go back to safety one day. Sadly to say, I know of many South Africans here in Dubai who are doing just that. They talk about how great our country was and moan and groan about the crime, corruption, taxes etc., but are not willing to do anything about it.
Cheers
Jack
What Zimbabwe really means!
No wonder that beatiful Rhodesia is so messed-up and is now called Zimbabwe.
Zero Intelligence Mainly Because All Bladdy When-we's Emigrated. Let's face it, in the old days, people would visit Rhodesia to see the Zimbabwe ruins. Now one goes to Zimbabwe to see the ruins of Rhodesia. Makes you think, doesn't it. I moved out in 1992 becuase Bob the rogue was turning my beautiful country into a cesspool.
Now I am thinking I will have to leave my adopted country, South Africa because the government here are doing absolutely nothing about the crime and corruption. An entire family, who were all dear friends of mine, were wiped out whilst having a braai in their garden by a two murders who got off scott-free because the "docket" with all the evidence went missing.
In the 13 years I have been here I have built a very profitable business, employing more than 80 people, but I will give it all u and start over in another country. I will feel terribly about depriving these people of a job, but I will get all my money out of the country and re invest it elsewhere. This country is going downhill fast.
Lloyd - ex Bulawayo Rhodesian, now on the verge of being an ex South African
I want a farm in Zimbabwe.
Well said Rodney. Ken if you want to log onto the DP/DA website to petition please feel free, it might be a little too late now.
However I also know that one of the fine ornamental garden water pumps available at Dubai Garden Centre would'nt be able stop the Titanic from sinking. I am not a defeatist, only a realist.
I have personally seen copies of several requests sent to Mandela and Mbeki and they have only [excuse the expression]regarded these as Butt Wipes.
A disgruntled South African also approached the Human Rights Commission in Johannesburg only to be informed by a certain Mr. Moodliar that he could consider his unresolved case closed.
I think that the complainant had in-sufficient Melanoma in his genetic make-up.
Nonetheless we should'nt become dis-couraged.
I really wish that 'Zim' had a Diplomatic mission in Abu Dhabi, I would apply to be handed a farm! If I am funding Rob Mug'apes cause then he should honour it in kind!
If you see him, tell him I would like a farm in the Umtali district, tell him also that I would like to rename Zim as Rhodesia.
Just a personal thing.
Good night!
Graeme
Let's all sign the petition.
I agree with all that has been said and frankly cannot add any more suffice it to say that we should all know sign a petition and send it back to the Govt and every Dept as well as all the other political parties including Nelson Mandela.
If this is going to achieve the result we all want for our country then lets do it.
Ed. I plan to send the petition -after every 100th name has been added - to every single minister including the opposition parties, newspapers all over the world, as well as every foreign ambassador and diplomat in South Africa, and all of our South African ambassadors and diplomats in foreign countries
Dreadful diseases in SA
Parliament has just given the green light for Mbeki to give his chommie Bob billions of OUR tax money to pay off his huge debts so he can stay in the IMF club. If he doesn't many more Zimbabweans will starve to death. Ironic yes. Spot the difference - Bob and his henchmen murder, starve and displace their citizens. Mbeki, his police force and legal system can do nothing to stem the tide of murders, rapes and thefts thereby condoning the evil acts of cowardly criminals. Why does Mbeki not use these billions to empower our police force and legal system to eliminate these criminals? Is it our money or, did the G8 countries give it to Mbeki to give Bob? Why did our parliament approve? It just struck me - many of our parliamentarians ancestors were goat and sheep herders so, when the speaker asks "All in favour say aye", everyone follows, very much like that kiddies game Simon Says. Makes you wonder.
South Africa we still love you, just eliminate those dreadful diseases, Criminals and Corruption.
Best wishes,
Rodney
The way to go?
Jack, maybe this is the attitude we should get to sort out the crime!!!
Cheers,
Greg
Magoo's
Yup, it is indeed the new South Africa. I remember as a laitie the now Chief Of Metro Police (Ekurhuleni – wherever the f**k that might be) was in the Tronk for blowing up and killing 03 innocent patrons at a well known bar in Durban – Magoos (I even felt the percussion blast at our house). He is now Chief Of Police?? F**k that place and those people.
R.T. Dubai
You are making dents in the system.
I would like to start off by saying that I am very sorry for your loss and I sincerely hope that time will dull some of the pain that you and your family are going through. I will not claim to know what you are going through but I will say that the fact that you are willing to stand up and make a difference speaks volume of your courage and for this I salute you.
I am not a South African but (for all my previous sins!!) I am married to one. (ha ha)
I have had the opportunity to visit SA on numerous occasions and will not hesitate to say that I really love it. It has a beauty that is difficult to define, yet so amazing! The crime situation however just makes it impossible to consider as an option to live in. What a shame. I do sincerely hope that the country has many brave individuals like yourself who will make a difference and improve the quality of life for the common person.
I would like to end my mail to you by saying a simple man wearing a loin cloth (Mahatma Gandhi) bought the most powerful empire to its knees. Please don’t be disheartened and keep up the great work that you are doing. I know that you are slowly making little dents in the system and soon a huge hole filled with hope and happiness will be open and spread through your heart and the country you love so much.
I wish you every success!
Best regards,
A.B UAE
